Raina Ivanova
Hello, my name is Raina. I’m a 17-year-old Climate and Child Rights activist from Germany and today I’m speaking to Dr. Obama. Thank you for being here first of all.
Dr Auma Obama
Thank you for having me.
Raina Ivanova
Dr. Auma Obama is a Kenyan sociologist, journalist, author and speaker and she’s a very powerful activist who supports many projects in the east of Africa and who has successfully created her own foundation called Sauti Kuu. She’s also a Councillor at the World Future Council. Thank you for being here.
Dr Auma Obama
Yes. Thank you for having me.
Raina Ivanova
We are speaking together in in Hamburg today. How do you like the city and how do you feel?
Dr Auma Obama
I actually like Hamburg a lot, especially when the sun shines as it’s doing now. It can be a bit dreary when it’s raining. But usually, when I’ve been here, luckily the sun has been shining. And it’s a beautiful city, beautiful buildings, the lovely waters of the Alster. So, yes, I do love Hamburg.
Raina Ivanova
I think then you are a very lucky person because it rains quite often here.
Dr Auma Obama
Yes, I actually am lucky.
Raina Ivanova
The sunshine comes with you.
Dr. Auma Obama
Sunshine. Indeed. That’s true.
Raina Ivanova
,So, let’s not waste any of our precious time and get started right away. You grew up in Nairobi, in Kenya as one of five siblings and you started your education at a boarding school. How was it growing up in Nairobi and in the Luo community?
Dr Auma Obama
Well, I think you said I grew up in Nairobi, which is quite diverse. And the Luo community was my family, because otherwise, Kenya has over 40 different ethnic groups. So, we grew up with very many different people from different ethnic backgrounds. And in the family: Yes, it was a little family. Although, saying that, my stepmother was American, so we’re already multicultural within the family. And the interesting thing about my growing up was that I was the only girl. So, among boys, which made my upbringing quite interesting, because I often heard “you can’t do this”, “you can’t do that because you’re a girl.” Or “you must do this”, “you must do that because you’re a girl.” And that was, at first, quite confusing. And then I was a little bit rebellious. So, I would say: “Why? Why do I have to do this because I’m a girl?” “Why can’t I do this because I’m a girl?” So, my family had a little bit of trouble with me on that front because I would always resist being put into a box.
Raina Ivanova
What was your favorite thing about growing up in Kenya?
Dr Auma Obama
My favorite thing about growing up in Kenya was the fact that I grew up with a lot of space and a lot of time and a lot of friends to play with. So, there was really a balance between growing up and going to school and also playing. We really were able to go out. From the Swiss Alps where I will be out in the morning and come back in the evening, just before it got dark, and only because I get in trouble for being out. Because we really played, I really loved my childhood, we had a lot of time to play. We played traditional games with five stones, we played skipping, we played football, we went exploring in the caves near where we lived. So, it was really full of adventure and discovery and really just exploring the world as a child. And I really love that. And I think I was privileged to have that because many children don’t have that anymore because of the urbanization and also, especially in Europe, because many children grew up in apartments, so I know that I was blessed to have that in my childhood.
Raina Ivanova
Yeah, that sounds lovely. You mentioned your education and also Europe. So, after you finished your school in Kenya, you moved to Germany, with a scholarship to study in Saarbrucken, Heidelberg and in Berlin. So why did you choose Germany for your studies? And is there something you find particularly interesting about the German culture?
Dr Auma Obama
Germany was sort of a coincidence initially because when I was in high school, they offered German as a course. And I had missed a chance at French because I didn’t pay enough attention. I don’t know how it works here, but the system in Kenya was such that you had to get very good grades in two languages. And I think I wasn’t paying attention too much when it came to French. And I got the opportunity just before I finished high school, to jump in from the side and do a language and this was German. And we had a really great German teacher. So, we explored the German language we had exhibition visits to go to and I learned German with Asterix and Obelix. And that’s how I say I learned my German. So, we had so much fun learning the language. And it was really, really a great time for me. And I discovered German literature. So, I started reading a lot of German literature, because that would also help with learning the German language. And then I thought: Well, now that I finished high school, I did want to go abroad, because I wanted to have more space to spread my wings to find myself and my own identity. And I felt restricted because as a girl at home, I was constantly being told what to do and what not to do. And I wanted my own space, so I said, I want to study abroad, I don’t want to stay at home. And I started looking for scholarships. And obviously, because I had German as a background, it made sense to try and get a scholarship in a German-speaking country. At the same time, I was interested in German literature, and studying German culture, and I was lucky enough to get a scholarship. So, I ended up in Germany, like you said, in Saarbrucken, to learn the language properly to sharpen up, because it wasn’t as good as I thought it was when I got here. And then I did my master’s in Heidelberg, and my doctorate in Bayreuth, before I then went to Berlin to study at the film school. So, I did a lot of learning, I was really what they’re calling “Ein ewiger Student” in German, which is a lifelong student, and I still am.
Raina Ivanova
So, you mentioned that you studied in film school in Berlin. What else was your study focus?
Dr Auma Obama
I think, through all of what I did by studying in Heidelberg, or learning the language in Saarbrucken, or even in Bayreuth, and then find and then finding the film school, what really drives me is communication and telling stories. And I was always looking for a way to be able to tell my story, and tell the story of the African continent, and then tell General people’s story, to make people connect, to interact with each other, understand each other. For me, it was really important I did a lot with the idea of being different. Being different is nothing to be afraid of, being different is actually enriching your life. Diversity is something that we need to strive for. And it’s an opportunity to learn, it’s an opportunity to grow. It’s an opportunity to enrich yourself and your surroundings. So, I think that’s what always drove me. Whether I was trying to do it through public speaking, whether I was trying to do it through teaching, whether I was trying to do it through making films and telling stories or writing books, it was always the motivation behind what I did: communication and exchange and integration. And at the same time, celebrating our differences, too.
Raina Ivanova
I can imagine that that might have been difficult for you moving to Germany as a young woman, do you want to share something about that?
Dr Auma Obama
When I was just a little bit older than you, I was 19 when I decided to leave. And it was interesting, because when I was trying to get my scholarship, because I was the only girl, and I was very close to my father, I thought that my father wouldn’t let me leave. I had this impression: oh, he won’t, he’ll decide in my life what I’m going to do with it. And he’s going to stop me from doing because that was my own decision. I looked for my scholarship by myself. So, I actually left without letting him know so I snuck out of the country. I ran away. My mom knew but she didn’t tell him, she was sworn to secrecy. So, for me, it was an adventure from beginning to the end, in that I left without everybody knowing I was going, it was quite unconventional. And so, I started off my life in Germany fighting the fight for my rights. And I think I kept that fight up till today.
Raina Ivanova
So, you lived in Germany, and also in the UK for a few years, right. And now you have returned to Kenya, where you also helped to set up the Sports for Social Change Network, which helps to introduce girls in particular to sports as a means of improving their social situation. Why is it especially girls’ rights that you are passionate about?
Dr Auma Obama
I think I’m passionate about the rights of all young people. That is definitely. I tend not to discriminate, but the focus on the girls is really because we don’t want them to be left behind, yes. The tendency for girls is that if you have a situation where an initiative has been created, or activities are happening that involve boys and girls, the girls will always take one step back and let the boys go ahead, and the boys will take the position. We know it in life, you are a young woman, you’ll experience it much more, I’ve experienced it quite a bit. Because men are not shy, whether they are competent or not. They’re not shy about taking the lead. And what we’re trying to do is make the girls also not shy about taking the lead, be brave, just try their luck be out there, be upfront. And that’s what we try to do. And that’s why in the Sports with Social Change Network that we created at the time, it is about promoting this, to make girls also start using sport just like boys, just like men do, to improve their confidence to make them have more self-esteem and to realize that being a girl is not a limitation. Being a woman is not a limitation. It’s just a fact of life. Before you’re a woman before you’re a girl, you’re a human being and as human beings we’re equal. So that’s what I was trying to promote. And that’s what the whole program was about.
Raina Ivanova
That sounds very impressive. And a few years after that, in 2010, you started your own foundation: Sauti Kuu. What does Sauti Kuu mean, and why did you start the foundation?
Dr Auma Obama
Sauti Kuu means powerful voices. And I started the foundation because, actually, I worked for a while with international organizations, e.g., Sports for Social Change. And one of the problems I always had was that many organizations, not just this one, are donor-driven in the sense that they are funds-driven. So, an activity can be done, a program, a project, and it will be lasting, maybe three years, five years. But this is because of the funding that is available. And very many times the funding is available for that period. And you work with young people, you work with a local team. And as soon as the funds are finished, the whole project just stops, it’s like – to me – falling off the edge of a cliff. And this really disturbed me because we were working with children, and when you’re working with a 10-year-old, if the project is only a three-year-long project, then the child is 13. When the project then stops, then what happens to this child, if the child is from the slums, you have not actually even scratched the surface of their life, you may have made a small dent, but you haven’t actually made that much of an impression. And they go back into the slums. And they fall into a bigger slum, because now they’ve tasted the possibilities of being appreciated, of moving forward or being active, all these things, and suddenly, there’s nothing there. So, they actually go backward and fall into a situation that is even more helpless and hopeless. And this disturbed me a lot, because even with a five-year program that 10-year-old is only a 15-year-old, not even old enough to even go into an apprenticeship somewhere, or even learn a trade somewhere because they should still be in school. And this disturbed me a lot, but it’s very hard to change big organizations and the way they work. It’s, for me, less personal. And even the fundraising is less personal. It’s very distant. It’s project-based, project-based, as I said, project funds-based and not individual-based and not beneficiary-based, in my opinion. So, parallel to working within this international organization, I would pick up these young people and start collecting them and working with them around own things that I was doing. And actually, in the end, I said “Well, if I’m already doing so much on the side on my own to keep these young people still active, to keep an eye on them, and try and keep the project alive like a skeleton type of support for them, why don’t I just do my own thing?” And also, another motivation was the fact that I wanted to work in the rural area, which at that time, few organizations worked in, because the rural, young person, the rural child with regards to being supported in a project-based situation whereby you assist them to improve their lives. There are very few organizations, and they’re disadvantaged. Especially in my own community where there’s a lot of poverty, and a lot of a false sense of not being able to look after your own life, not being able to cope financially by the provision based on ignorance and not knowing how to work with locally available resources. So, I saw a gap that I felt needed to be filled. Also, because with this, I wanted to show that programs have to be run in such a way that at the forefront are the beneficiaries, they must never notice as there’s no money, there must always be continuity. If you struggle in the back struggle in the back looking for funds, whatever. That is the problem of the operation, the problem of the organization, but the beneficiary must, especially with children, it must be continuous. And they must always be able to access the services that you’re giving. So, the fundraising has to be done differently. And it has to be rigorous, and it has to be sustainable and long-term. And we actually managed to make this happen at Sauti Kuu. So, the foundation works in such a way that the beneficiaries stay with us over the years. They grew up with us. But in the background, we have a system whereby we’re constantly fundraising, and we have a system whereby we tried to fundraise for unrestricted funds. So, the program always continues. It is not project-based we call it ongoing program activities. It is program based and not just project-based, we do have restricted funding projects. But our core work is with the ongoing programs that go on all the time. And the young people have sports, young people have drama, they have art activities, they have tuition, they are working in the gardens, because we agriculture, they have many different activities that they do ongoing, that are not just based on one project, and it doesn’t end after three years, and then they, we have to send them home, we never send our children home.
Raina Ivanova
That sounds amazing. How many children are in the program currently?
Dr Auma Obama
In our books, we have about 500, because we’ve been around for ten years. And what happens is that because they grew up, they go to Nairobi, or they go to university, and they’re not always there. So active participants, we have about 250. But we will say once a Sauti Kuu young person, always a Sauti Kuu young person. So, in the holidays, they come back, and they take part in activities when they’re older, they become interns with us, some of them have been employed by us. So, there’s a lot of continuity. So, you see the same faces again and again and again. I forgot to mention that the parents are very strongly involved. So, we have the children involved. And then we have the parents because you can’t go into somebody’s home, work with their children, and do not involve the parents, because then you’re actually violating their space. So, what we do is, we get the parents involved, but you have to be a parent, you have to have a child with us. So, we have programs for the parents, and the children participate in those programs, whether it’s creating a kitchen garden, or at present, what we’re doing is building energy, save a hut that involves a stove attach, so they start not cutting down the trees and use less wood. So, we do all these things with a kid, children are always involved, so that they learn from what we do and participate in creating those spaces and those initiatives that we do, but the parents are there so that the parents open doors and make it possible. So, we create, together with the parents, a platform for the children to improve their lives by doing different activities be it in economic empowerment, be it in personality development, be it in education and training, or, you know, just motivational activities that have to do with skills, life skills. So, with the parents we call them households because with a parent comes a household, we work with about 200 households.
Raina Ivanova
I love that! It seems like a very sustainable model.
Dr Auma Obama
It’s a family. Yeah.
Raina Ivanova
So, talking a bit more about the World Future Council. The WFC tries to identify and disseminate good policies in order to pass on a healthy and sustainable planet to current and future generations. And you are one of the Councillors. What does it mean to you to be a Councillor?
Dr Auma Obama
It means a lot to me. I was very honored when I was asked. I’ve been around a while. So, I have been a Councillor for a bit, so maybe I am doing something right. And I think the most important thing is what you said about policies, trying to influence and celebrate first. Celebrate good policy, influence policy that is not so good to align with what it needs to happen to ensure that future generations have a future. And for me, that’s very important. I work with children; my foundation is a Children’s Foundation basically. So, all of what happens at the World Future Council is helping my work, supporting my work, promoting my work. So, to be part of it is the most natural thing for me and I think we might achieve quite a bit. We’ve managed to celebrate and highlight many good policies that not only work well for children and young people but work well in general for communities, for countries and for our world at large. So, I think we need a lot more publicity, a lot more people involved, a lot more visibility and I hope that I’m able to give us that in order to let people know the great work that we’re doing in the World Future Council.
Raina Ivanova
Within the WFC, you have been the Co-Chair of the Rights of Children and Youth commission. Are there any synergies between the work at the World Future Council in this area and your work at the Sauti Kuu Foundation?
Dr Auma Obama
I think one of my biggest takeaways from being part of the World Future Council is the focus on children’s rights. And it’s actually quite a challenge to teach children about their rights in a way that it really is clear to them that they have a right to have rights, especially in our part of the world, especially in the rural community. And that’s one of the things that I’m constantly reminded that I have to do more because I’m in the World Future Council and because I co-chair the Children’s Rights Commission. And this is something that is a work in progress, very exciting. But just getting children to go back to one of the things that we want to try and do is get back to civic education, because it was taken out of the schools. And this is very unfortunate because I think it was done almost in all schools all over the world, that they got rid of civic education, which is the basis for democracy, knowing about, being informed about how your country functions, how government functions. Your country is a basic right, that is the very first thing you must know because if you’re not informed about this, you can’t make a judgment call on who are the right people to be in charge of your life, in charge of your welfare, your well-being. And I think that’s something that the Children’s Rights Commission works towards making possible: That children become aware, not just to where we are kind of like the custodians of making sure that it’s the end-to-end taking care of children’s rights. I think also, we need to go a step further and do much, much more with regards to how children themselves start understanding what it means knowing the connection between what I do in my life and what other people do. And what is due me as a child, and where my limitations as a child where other people take over. I think many young people, mainly children, don’t know that. And we’re working towards making that happen. We’ve already awarded policies that make sure that that happens that children are aware, especially like in Zanzibar, when we gave the award to Zanzibar for their children’s courts, the courts working in integration with children, to give them their rights. These are the sort of things that actually motivates me and excite me about being part of the commission because I see it works. And it can be done, and it can be done on a larger scale, it can be done with government. And that is really, for me, very, very positive. And it means that the work being done at the World Future Council has relevance.
Raina Ivanova
Earlier this year, the WFC launched the Youth:Present Forum, which I’m also part of, and I feel like in our society in general, we have been seeing more youth initiatives. And one of these, which has also gained increasingly more recognition, is Friday for Future. This is a model that I think is the biggest in Western countries. Do you think it is also a model that can be implemented all around the world?
Dr Auma Obama
First about Youth:Present: I’m very excited about it because I think the light that was kindled that became Youth:Present, was kindled when we met in Egypt when we had an annual general meeting at Sekem. And I remember there were quite a few young people helping on the sidelines. And they were of course listening to our conversations and how we were talking about how we want to take care of the future of young people. And it came out in those discussions from the young people. “Hey, you’re all talking about us. But where are we? Can we talk for ourselves?”, it was really quite interesting. So, it was immediately decided: “Okay, let you guys get a group together and present what you think should happen”. And from that now, we now have the Youth:Present and it’s wonderful to see that it’s happening. It’s wonderful to see that even as you interview us, we are having an interaction with each other. That is, for me, key. And I think it’s all very well for young people to go out and demonstrate to have a voice, have the opinion, but I think it cannot be to the exclusion of the older generation. That is something that for me is, actually, this seemed not to succeed. And this is why even it’s hard to do when we work, with young people, we call ourselves a children’s organization a Children’s Foundation. But we do not work without the parents. Because at the end of the day, the parents sign on the dotted line. And that applies to all young people who are doing whatever they’re doing out there, whether they demonstrate, whether they’re acting like yourself, at the end of the day, your parents sign on the dotted line, so long as your children, and this is something Children must learn to respect. And I sound like I’m not being pissy. But really, I think it’s important to know this. So as much as I admire the movements, as much as I admire fighters for the future, the energy, the courage, the motivation, the passion that goes with all the movements that young people are involved in at the moment. I want to remind young people that what they’re doing, and I don’t say it without respect, is not new. It was done. Every generation has had a movement. But the problem with most of the movements, why they fail is because they leave out the older generation. And what I would like to see, be it Fridays for Future, be it Youth:Present, be it any other organization, your organization, is that discourse, a conversation happens with the older generation. And together, we make change happen. So, all these things have to happen, though, in my opinion. And that’s why I have I look at it with a little bit of skepticism. Because I say it’s very easy to join a movement, it’s very easy to go out there and march and carry a banner. But for me, it’s even easier to do it at home. Because if we all did it, the world would be a much, much better place. And we take care of things do you recycle at home? As you try and change the world and you save the oceans and the seas? Are you recycling your plastic? Are you wearing new clothes every time because a new trend is coming? Are you keeping those jeans and wearing them for five years and say, okay, I’ll continue to wear this because I don’t want to go and shop again consume, consume, consume in a shop till you drop? So, all these things are part of it. They’re part of making sure we have a better world to live in. And I think the discussion has to go in that direction. Where the big actions count, Fridays for Future definitely counts because it gives young people a voice, it gives them the courage to do something to be active, but it has to start at home. And that’s more difficult because we’re used to being spoiled and pampered and having it easy. And we have a beautiful comfort zone at hom,e but you must remember: Am I not exploiting somebody at home as you would the environment out there.
Raina Ivanova
I think it’s very interesting what you’re saying, and I think it always has to be a two-way movement because for many people e.g., talking about climate change and sustainability, many sustainable options are not available. Because, for example, they’re more expensive or something like that. And so, I feel like there must be this two-way movement, that we also go onto the streets and demand that these more sustainable options become accessible to us. So, our everyday decisions, sustainable everyday decisions can be made easier.
Dr Auma Obama
And in these conversations, if you have them at home, just as expensive for you, it’s expensive for your parents who buy that. So, the parents can go out with you. Because, if you can convince them and say, “Hey Mom, look at this beautiful sweater that I’m wearing, if I want to have one that is sustainable, and respects the environment, and conserves the environment, it’s going to cost twice as much, and you’re the one paying for it, what should we do about it?” Because I think this dialogue has to happen between the generation. And that’s why we have to, in order for us to really have an impact, we need to work together, we can’t work separately, we can’t be angry at each other. Because, as I said, your movements are not new, they were happening before, our generation was angry with our parents, and we did our own demonstrating and everything. And this keeps repeating itself. And the plan is just sitting there watching and thinking “some time there will be no human beings, we’ll go back to just having ice age and whatever water age and fire age”, and the planet just waits and breathes quietly and says “okay, let them get on with it”. Because the planet doesn’t care. It’s us, we must breathe clean air, it’s us we have to eat food that is healthy, from a healthy ground, we must drink clean water, that is healthy, it’s all about us. That is definitely the case. And we need to stick together on this. And that’s, for me, what I try to tell young people: Don’t go find your own, see if your parents will go with you, you know, and see if you can find solutions together.
Raina Ivanova
Many parents and grandparents actually, also are part of Friday’s future, especially here in Hamburg, we also have parents for future and grandparents for future. So, when we have the big strikes, there are always parents with their little children, also grandparents on the street, which I think is very beautiful.
Dr Auma Obama
And then the next thing that has to happen is they have to vote right because going on the streets alone is not enough. And that’s why specific education is so important. Understand how your government works, understand the influence of industry, on how governments decide. It’s really doing your homework, it’s a lot more than the what is seen in front, the picture of the student, and there are a lot of experts who are also supporting you, or who can give you the right material and give you the information that you need in order to make the right decisions around how life is created and how life continues in your environment and in the areas that you are in, you live in. For some it’s easier than for others. Some countries have it more difficult because there’s less openness to this kind of freedom of movement in terms of being democratic and seeing your opinion, but at the bottom of it all is working together or should be.
Raina Ivanova
These processes can be long and frustrating. What is one thing that keeps you motivated and striving towards change?
Dr Auma Obama
I think what keeps me motivated and striving toward changes like now, for example, is talking to you, with your 17 years, hopeful, active interested, caring. This is what keeps me going because I know that it is my responsibility to continue because you are all out there. Why would I give up when you’re not giving up? Why would I give up when I can support and enable and create platforms that enable you to have your voice. That’s what I do. That’s what Sauti Kuu does. We create platforms, we create spaces where young people can have their voice, use their voice, be active, we demand it of them, we push you in that direction, say: Come on, get on with it. Be an active participant, don’t be passive participants. Don’t t be a victim, a passive participant is a victim. Don’t be a victim, you can determine your destiny, be responsible, be part of the process, be part of the decision-making process that enables you to have the kind of life that you want to live responsibly, but also, you know, respecting, and also considering others.
Raina Ivanova
You once described yourself with the following words: Human, woman, African, Kenyan, a woman with the famous surname Obama and a bridge between cultures. What do you mean by that?
Dr Auma Obama
I think I start with the first one, human. First and foremost, I see myself as a human being. I don’t see myself as a feminist because I see myself as a human. Because I was saying that before I’m a woman before I’m an African. I’m a woman. I’m a human. And being a human just means that I’m on this earth like any other human, and I try to make my way through this life like any other human. If I’m able to confront people as a human being, be it a man, woman, a white person, a black person, then we’re equal. There’s no discussion around all gender equity or equality there’s no discussion because we are humans. So, we measure ourselves against each other as humans. And that is, for me, the most important thing, I am then proud to be a woman because I love being a woman, I will promote women because I feel that society is not accepting women in a way that allows us to just be humans. So, we need to work towards making sure that happens. I’m an African as well because that is where I come from, that is my identity, I am also proud of the fact. But it doesn’t define me alone. I’m more than that. So, it’s very important for me to be proud of it, to uphold it, to support it, to promote it. But it doesn’t define me alone. It’s what makes me more interesting. It enriches my identity. And on top of that, all, I’m a mother as well. These are all points of discrimination, except for the first being a human, all the others are points of this, you can be discriminated based on being black, being a woman, being a mother, but you can’t be discriminated based on being a human. Because you’re just a human, no human will discriminate against another human because you’re just a human. If we both see ourselves as human, we won’t discriminate. So that’s it. For me, it’s very important that the definitions of me are boiled into the one that I’m a human.
Raina Ivanova
When you look into the future, also, for example, considering discrimination, but also many other challenges that we are currently facing, are you hopeful?
Dr Auma Obama
I am more than hopeful because to me, being hopeful is a little bit passive. Because you can be hopeful, but you can sit there and hope. It’s to me, it’s a little bit of a bus stop scenario. You’re hoping the bus shows up? Nein? Sorry. No, the bus has to show up. It’s on the time to is coming. It’s 8:40 and at 8:40 it will be there. I’m not hopeful. I know it can be better. I know we can live differently. I know it. I know there are solutions that can improve the lives of us as human beings that can ensure that our young people have a better future. We all know it. It’s just we don’t do it. Because we want to make money. Because we are comfortable. Because we’re afraid. There are solutions. That’s how I go through life. I know for everything, there’s a solution, you have to compromise sometimes, you have to have less, you can’t be greedy, you can’t just want to consume, you can’t always be in first place. But there’s always a way out. You can negotiate spaces to find solutions. And that’s what I believe in. And that’s why for me, I don’t live in hope. I live in being an active participant in making change happen. That’s how I live.
Raina Ivanova
Is there another question you would like to be asked? Or do you have a question for me?
Dr Auma Obama
Do you have anything that you’d like to say to what I’ve just said, with regards to the whole interview?
Raina Ivanova
Yes. I think one point struck me as particularly interesting. You talked a few times about how the generations have to work together. So, it’s not the young people against the old? I very much agree with you. Yes, I think especially when it comes to, for example, climate change, there’s often this impression that the young people are working against the older generations, and that we are pointing our finger at them and saying that they’ve destroyed our planet, and now they have to pay for it or something like that. And I think that is actually very sad because it takes away many opportunities from us to work together and to create meaningful change.
Dr Auma Obama
Yeah, you know, and the thing is, also, when you think about that, it’s critical because, for example, you’ll find that a young person is really mad, because all the other people have ruined our lives, our future, etc. And we want to save the planet, want to do all these things. But it’s really ironic because you’ll find that same young person that is going to the demonstration asking: “Mom, can you drive me there?” That same car, which is probably harming the environment is the one that a young person gets into and goes to their demonstration. Or “Mom, it’s raining, can you pick me up?” So, at the same time, “Mom, you’re ruining our environment.” So, we really need to get very honest about what we want to do and get down to basics and work together. We are all afraid for our planet, we all have to live on this planet. So, it’s not you guys against us. It’s all of us together and it is really, really critical, I think. And many times, you need us, you’re really young. In fact, is you’re right, – again, talking about children’s rights – we can’t let you loose on your own. Because we have that experience. And we’ve gone through it all. We’ve demonstrated as well, for different reasons for different things. I mean, we women, why are we here? Because women before us have fought the fight for women to have equitable opportunities. So yeah, I think it’s good that you’re thinking about it, and I hope you take that message to your friends.
Do you discuss it with young people about the generation gap?
Raina Ivanova
Yeah, definitely. I think it’s one of the biggest topics when we talk about this generational conflict almost. And also, in connection with youth participation. Because often I feel, as a young person, that youth participation is really meaningful, that it’s kind of superficial, and that youth are being invited to for example, conferences, and they give us the platform to speak for a few minutes and then we go home again, we don’t really have a meaningful impact. I think that is something that is very sad. Because as we can benefit from the knowledge and experience from older generations, they can also benefit from our perspective, which is why I think, and I agree with you, that we need to work together in order to create meaningful change.
Dr Auma Obama
Yeah, that’s true and actually, that is a problem. Inviting youth to an event, having them speak for a second, and then they’re gone. And that must be extremely frustrating. And then one must really, maybe even be brave enough to say, no, I’m not coming. We’re going to have our own event and we’re going to invite you. Why didn’t you do that? You have your own events, and then invite us and then send us home. That’d be the way to go. You know, go try that next time at the World Future Council. Thank you.
Thank you very much.
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